July 9, 2008...2:30 am

Will This Comeback Story End In 300 Wins and the Hall of Fame?

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In a totally unexpected development, Mike Mussina has been the Yankees’ best pitcher this year. Moose looked done last year after continuing his streak of mediocre pitching seasons in his late 30s. At his lowest point, he was bumped from the starting rotation. Many (myself included) figured Mussina was never coming back.
We were very, very wrong. Currently, Mussina stands at 11-6 with a respectable 3.64 ERA.  At 39, Mussina is up to 261 career wins. Will he get to 300 and does he need to in order to clinch the Hall of Fame?
As we did yesterday with Randy Johnson, let’s compare Mike Mussina to two recent members of the all exclusive 300 victory club Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux as well as Johnson.
 
But first, let’s figure out what Mussina has to do to get to pitching’s most glorious career milestone. So far this year, he’s racked up 11 wins and is more than half way to his first ever 20 win season. Since this is my blog, you are gonna have to trust me when I say that Mussina won’t get 20 this year. I put the over/under on him at 15 wins.

Baseball is a funny game and it has a way of catching up to people. Mussina, given his recent pitching history, has pitched way too well this year. Don’t give me that stuff about him finding a different way to pitch this year. The man is 39. He is what he is. Either injury of bad luck will keep his second half from being as good as his first half. I know. The baseball gods have spoken to me. (PS-they say hello)

So, let’s say me and the baseball gods are a little off and Mussina wins 17 games this season. That would put him at 267.  Mike Mussina would be just 33 wins away from immortality.  Shockingly and tantalizingly close, but next year, Mussina will be pitching at age 40…

Here’s how Clemens and company did post 40.  Roger Clemens won 17 games at 40, then 18 at 41 and finally 13 at 42 before going into permanent part time service.  Interestingly, Clemens ERA went down each of those years before setting in at under 2.00 for his 13 win campaign.  Maddux in his two full seasons as a forty year old so far won 14 and 15 games with ERAs around 4.20.  Not horrible, but not vintage Maddux.  As for Johnson, the big lefty won between 16-17 games for each of his first three season in his forties until he was able to make only 10 starts last year as a 43 year old.

As good as all three future Hall of Famers have been, the reality is that all of them slowed down in their 40s whether due to age, injury or choice.  Mussina began his slowing down process in his 30s.  Don’t believe me?  Here are Mussina’s numbers for the last four seasons prior to this one:

  • Age 35: 12-9, 4.59
  • Age 36: 13-8, 4.41
  • Age 37: 15-7, 3.51
  • Age 38: 11-10, 5.15

 Verdict # 1: Mike Mussina will not make it to 300 wins.

Give him credit though, he’s a lot closer than anyone would have imaged last year.  That said, in order to get to 300, he’ll have to go another three years with 10-15 wins each season.  If he was Maddux or Clemens or Johnson, I’d bet the house on him.  Mussina has never been in those guys’ class and so I’m betting against him to join their exclusive club.

So if Mussina doesn’t win 300, is he a Hall of Famer?

In my opinion, there are two kinds of Hall of Famers and both have legitimate paths to Cooperstown.  The first is the no brainer.  Guys who were so talented and so dominant that there’s no argument whether their career spanned many decades (Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron) or was cut short  (think Lou Gherig or Roberto Clemente or Sandy Koufax as the extreme case of a short but breathtakingly brilliant career).

Then, the second legitimate path to the Hall of Fame are the compilers.  Baseball is one heck of a tough sport.  Hitting its magic numbers like 300 wins, 3,000 hits or 500 home runs are amazing feats of talent and consistency.  Some of the guys who surpassed those milestones where never confused with being the absolute best at their position, but they deserve a great deal of credit for getting there nonetheless and have a rightful place in the Hall.

Back to Mike Mussina.  Is Mike Mussina a “no brainer” candidate?  Let me give you the “no brainer” answer – NO!

So, in order for Mussina to get in he’s going to have go the compiler route.  In these days of relief specialists, pitch counts and relief specialists, it’s tough enough to win 15 never mind 20 games in a season.  In order to win 300 in a career a player has to average 15 wins for 20 seasons (two decades worth).  Mussina may get as close to 300 as anyone other than Randy Johnson may get for a long time.  All of that said…

Verdict #2 – Mike Mussina just won’t get into Cooperstown without 300 wins

The challenge will be that Hall of Fame voters haven’t adjusted their thinking.  In their minds it’s not the all impressive 250 win club.  It’s still 300 or bust.  Absent any Cy Youngs, missing a twenty win season (or two or three) and with an ERA that was very rarely below 3.00,  Mussina simply won’t get in as a no brainer or a compiler.

And you know what?  I’m OK with that.

Mike Mussina has been a very good major league pitcher for a long time, but he’s never been the game’s top ace or even his league’s or his division’s and sometimes not even his team’s #1.  Mike Mussina deserves an awful lot of respect but until Jack Morris, Curt Schilling and maybe even Bert Blyleven get busts in Cooperstown, I won’t be making many arguments on his behalf.

4 Comments

  • I disagree with you…there are plenty of pitchers who are in the Hall with <300 wins.

    What have Morris and Schilling and Blylevyn done? I don’t see a single Cy Young among them either.

    Secondly, Jack Morris and Bert Blylevyn have worse ERA’s given the era that they pitched in. Mussina’s ERA is 22% above league average. Blylevyn’s was 18%. Morris’ was only 5%!!

    The Hall of Fame isn’t about being the “best” pitcher of your generation. If it were, there would only be 7 guys in the Hall.

    According to Cy Young voting, this is how the voters ranked Mussina as a starter relative to the league:

    1992: 3rd
    1994: 4th
    1995: 4th
    1996: 4th
    1997: 6th
    1999: 2nd
    2000: 5th
    2001: 5th

    That’s a pretty solid stretch right there. Mussina has been a more consistent pitcher than Schilling over the course of his career. Schilling has four top-6 Cy Young finishes. Mussina has eight.

    Schilling’s career was basically defined by three great 20+ win seasons, something Mussina has never had. But Schilling has had SIX seasons with single digit wins, something Mussina has never had (excluding his half-season rookie year)

    So Schilling’s peak has been higher but his valley’s were lower…the guy went 18-23 from 1994-1996 for crying out loud!

  • tidewaterjackson

    Thanks for your well written comments and for checking out my blog. Please come on back.

    Now, here’s where I think you are wrong. Yes, there are plenty of pitchers in the Hall of Fame with less than 300 wins. My point on Mussina was that given his particular career he likely wasn’t getting in unless he won 300.

    I completely agree that Mussina has been for the bulk of his career a very consistent pitcher. It’s just that he never elevated it to the level of no debate about it all time great. If you had a conversation about the pitching greats of the 90s and 00s, when would Mike Mussina’s name come up? Too far down the line to merit a ton of HOF voter support.

    Even as I give you credit for being possibly being right on Mussina versus Blyleven, I think you couldn’t be more wrong on Schilling and Morris.

    Where is that Mussina moment that we’ll tell our kids about? Answer… No where. You could easily write the history of baseball without Mike Mussina.

    Can you say that about Schilling or Morris? Of course, you can’t. Both of them have given baseball some of it’s best post season performances. In addition to that both were the ace of multiple teams that won the world series.

    Morris and Schilling were great regular season performers on great teams and then each stepped it up a notch in the playoffs. You can’t tell the story of baseball without either of them.

    For all of those reasons, Schilling and Morris should be in the HOF.

    Let’s get that done and then we can debate Mussina vs. Blyleven.

    Again, thanks for your comments and please come on back!
    Tidewater

  • i guess your opinion and forecasting is really great since mussina only needs two more wins to be above ur over/under. even last year which was his worst ever he still was only 2 wins under your brilliant over/under, which has been rendered meaningless in two starts.

    plus since he has 17 seasons now of 11 or more wins why wouldnt he do that 3 more years in a row. far more likely that he would then he wouldnt. so he is probably less than 3 years away from doing it.

    he may not get to 300 wins but it would be because he does not want to not because he cant.

  • tidewaterjackson

    Hey Bryan,

    Thanks for checking out my site. What up with the hostility tho? Maybe you’re the president of the Mussina Fan Club??

    Anyway, in response to your comments, I’d say the following. First off, it’s a long season. He may yet not beat my “brilliant” over/under.

    Not sure how much baseball you’ve watched in your life, but pitchers in their late 30s usually breakdown pretty quickly. I wouldn’t be so sure that Mussina can keep reeling off double-digit win seasons into his early 40s.

    The thing you said I take most issue with is that Mussina may chose not to go for 300. With the HOF at stake, if you end up being right and Mussina has a decent shot at 300 then mark my words he’ll drag out his career long enough to go over 300.

    Finally, while I’m not incapable of getting a forecast wrong. I think it’s worth noting that I predicted Favre’s comeback when he retired. In politics (the other focus of this site), I made the case that America was indeed ready for her first African American president before the primaries ever started. That one’s looking pretty good too right now.

    Appreciate your passion for sports. Please come on back.

    Rock on,
    Tidewater


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